This week, Opposition leader Sussan Ley came into the TDA office for a sit-down interview about the Coalition’s new climate policy. In case you missed it, a week ago the Coalition announced it would abandon Australia’s target of net zero by 2050, if elected to government, to instead focus on affordable energy.

It’s the biggest policy announcement from the Coalition since their loss at the last election in May.

It also comes amid speculation that Ley’s colleagues could be planning a leadership spill.

Below is an edited extract of our conversation. You can also watch the full interview here, and listen to it here.

FitzSimons: Sussan Ley, thank you for joining The Daily Aus. 

Ley: It’s a pleasure.

FitzSimons: We’re talking today because on Sunday, the Coalition announced that it would abandon Australia's net zero by 2050 target. For anyone who missed that announcement, can you take us through it?

Ley: Our plan that I'm talking about today is about affordable energy and responsible emissions reduction.

I know that a lot of young people are really struggling with the cost of living right now, and that's one of the reasons we've made affordability of energy central to the plan… What I've done is listen to young people, and they've told me they care about the climate, and I care about the climate. 

FitzSimons: But isn't this decision – abandoning net zero – bad for the climate? 

Ley: It's a target that, unfortunately, the Government is not going to reach. And already, if you look at where they've come from and where they're going… Emissions from Australia are flatlining, but most importantly, energy prices are going up… Because energy is unaffordable, everything is unaffordable. So we have to [make] the cost of energy affordable.

FitzSimons: Okay. So you're saying we need to abandon climate targets to bring down the cost of energy bills. But experts have said there are multiple reasons for higher energy bills – for example, Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So, what is the evidence that higher energy prices are caused by renewable energy? 

Ley: The Government told you that your energy bills would go down. Because of renewable energy, your energy bills have gone up by 40%. This is all after the Ukraine war. Any effects from that have washed out…

FitzSimons: But that war is still ongoing, so we are still seeing the effects of that?

Ley: Yes. But the effects that Australia is seeing are from the renewable energy build and the Government's energy policy.

The Government has said we're building 82% of the grid to be renewable by 2030. They're woefully off track with that. That actually is not going to happen. And the Government, privately, I think, would admit this too. They're failing to do what they said they would do, which is to keep prices down. 

FitzSimons: Let's look at the Paris Agreement [the global climate treaty]. You say that you will remain committed to it, but to reach the goal set out in that agreement, countries need to achieve net zero by 2050. So if you're serious about ditching net zero, why not leave the Paris agreement as well?

Ley: I'm going to disagree with you about net zero by 2050 being in the Paris Agreement. What [it] says is that countries must submit their nationally determined contributions, and they can resubmit them…

FitzSimons: It's more specific than that, though. It has the target of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees. In order to scientifically achieve that, net zero is required. 

Ley: So Billi, if it is the only way to achieve that target, how much can Australia achieve if we're only 1% of those global emissions?

FitzSimons: But are you saying if we can't 100% get there, then we shouldn't even try? 

Ley: I'm saying that we should responsibly play our part in the ways that I've said, which is, bringing down our own emissions because that's what we should do. I know there's lots of disagreement about what it means, but let's take a step back. Does anyone in Australia really think that we would let an international agreement determine a policy that will crash Australia's businesses, make our young people inherit a lower standard of living, and even then, would not make an appreciable difference to the world's climate?

FitzSimons: Let's get back to the specifics of the Paris Agreement. It specifies that countries’ targets can't go backwards. Under the Coalition proposal, Australia's targets would go backwards. So is the strategy to remain part of the Paris Agreement, but then actively breach it?

Ley: Well, we'll sit at the table – the forum that is the Paris Agreement – and we'll talk about what our nationally determined contributions will be in our national interest when that time comes… So, what other countries are doing right now, because many of them have realised it's not possible to reach the targets that they set,

FitzSimons: But they're not going backwards on their targets… 

Ley: Well, they are.

FitzSimons: Who?

Ley: Well, countries that are saying our nationally determined contributions are now going to be calculated in a different way.

FitzSimons: But who's going backwards on their targets? 

Ley: Well, several countries are doing things differently because of this. And I'll send you a list.

FitzSimons: Okay. I look forward to the list.*

Ley: It depends on what you mean by going backwards. Labor has given [a target of] 43% by 2030, and they've said [by] 2035 it will be 62-70%. There is no way that can be reached.

*Editor’s note: No list was provided.

FitzSimons: Lastly, I want to turn to the speculation around your leadership. Your colleague, Sarah Henderson, recently said, “I can't pretend things are good. I do think Sussan is losing support.” What's your response to that? 

Ley: I'm not going to comment on the commentary of colleagues, or others who tend to then comment on that commentary, except to say that we as a team signed off on this affordable plan.

And you know what? While I understand why people have to ask these questions, I am not going to lose focus for a single second on what is really important to me, which is how we develop and deliver an affordable and reliable energy system for Australians. 

FitzSimons: I understand that you are focused on it, and I believe that you are focused on that policy, but your colleagues don't seem to be focused on it. Every single day in the media, there is speculation that your colleagues don't want you to be the leader anymore. So how do you respond to that? 

Ley: I just don't comment on commentary. There are all sorts of things in the media about ‘who said what to whom’. I pay no attention to it because I genuinely am focused on this.

FitzSimons: You're confident you'll be the leader of the opposition at the next election? 

Ley: Yes, I am. 

FitzSimons: Sussan Ley, thank you so much for joining us. 

Ley: Thank you.

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